Hey guys, I have been DH sufferer and gluten-free for almost three years. I just wanted to talk about this experience for anybody that may have had the same concerns as me regarding taking communion/sacrament/or whatever your particular church might call it.

Long story short. I have been a protestant christian my whole life. I started passing along, or skipping out on, the bread portion of the communion tray as soon as I went gluten-free. That was the first issue.

Fast forward to 1 month ago: After a life long of soul searching, I joined a Lutheran church. Communion is a whole new ball game here. Anyone who is Catholic/Lutheran/Episcopalian/and maybe some others that I have left out, know that the service is absolutely centered around communion/sacrament/or whatever your denomination might call it. We believe that grace is implemented through this meal. You don't simply "pass the plate", or say "I can't eat wheat."

(Just a side note... this is a topic about wheat, not theology. So whatever religion you might/might not be. I love you all ! Please don't take offense. =)

So, after becoming a member of my new church, I thought the typical thoughts... Will my DH go crazy? If I can't eat this, am I going to miss out on grace? Does this mean that I am not part of God's family? I know, really stupid thoughts... but my silly self thought this... take it or leave it.

Fast forward to today, I have been doing the whole communion 100% without ANY ill effects. Is it that I am eating such a small amount of wheat in my diet, that I don't break out? Is it a blessing from numero uno? I don't know... But it is what it is. I pray that it continues to stay this way, and ask that you guys say a quick prayer for me too, if you feel so inclined! If you need prayer, I am all ears! Send me a note!

I know that this probably seems "silly" to some of you, and maybe some of you have had some similar issues. I write this to hopefully encourage others that there is possibility of hope! If you have had similar stories, please comment. I would love to hear. You guys are great, and hang in there!!!!!!!

Brizzo

I know that God can bless me /you/anyone that asks so you don't get glutened from the wafer. I know that God could heal you/anyone completely and permanently if he so chooses to do so. I know that we all may have a thorn in our flesh but God may choose not to remove it. I know that God wants the relationship with us not the rules and rituals that any church or denomination sets before us. Our hearts towards him is far more important than a wafer. I know his word says that when we take communion it is to remember Jesus and what he did at the cross for us, not to receive any special grace. Luke 22:19 And he took the bread and gave thanks and brake it and gave unto them saying this is my body which is given for you this do in remembrance of me. I know we cannot add to anything to what Jesus did at the cross. I know that our adversary is always trying to make us feel guilty. I know we live in a fallen world and there has been diseases from the beginning and more towards the end. I know I am going to heaven b/c of what Jesus did at the cross for me personally. I know that we may have to die to get there whether by disease and sickness or if Jesus comes back for me sooner. I know he has plans for me now whether I am a celiac or a druggy or broke or an orphan or blind or whatever circumstance I am in. I know that he loves me unconditionally and he cares about every moment of my life. I know I can choose to take the wafer or not but it does not change my relationship with Jesus or his love for me. This is my personal opinion and anyone has the right to choose to differ and to have their own opinion about communion and life itself. With God...All things are possible!

Theological discussions aside, the external manifestation of symptoms is not a good gauge for internal reaction. The effects of gluten are often cumulative, and it may be that you have not yet reached the tipping point to begin having reactions you can feel.

Good luck to you, whatever choice your faith leads you to make.

Hi Brizzo,

I haven't seen you for a while

Miracles aside (I didn't mean that in a frivolous way, as I believe in them), I think that partaking of the wheat bread regularly will result in damage and also symptoms at some point. You may have healed enough at the moment, but I'm afraid it will catch up with you.

I know that as a Catholic, I can take only the wine and not the host. Can you speak to your pastor and see if there's a similar solution for you?

In the Catholic Church it's okay to just take the cup. We cannot use anything but wheat for the host.

I don't know if the Lutheran Church is the same .... perhaps you could use a host made from rice? Or there are some Benedictine Sisters who make a low gluten host that is even acceptable in the Catholic Church.

I have to agree with others. You may be healed enough that you aren't showing symptoms from the small amount of gluten, but it will add up. I wouldn't risk it.

Couldn't you provide your pastor/priest/minster(?) with a gluten free cracker to be blessed and taken during communion? After all isn't the cracker just a symbolic representation of the "Body of Christ"?

Thanks guys, you all have great comments and I appreciate them all. And yes, I have been out for a while. But it's good to be back!

I do agree with those of you that say, that there is definitely intestinal damage being done by 1 wafer every week, Wether my external DH symptoms "flare up", or not. I don't disagree with that one bit! But I also know that even on a 100% gluten-free strict diet. We all ingest some gluten at some time. No matter how small! Let's face it, if you walk by a pizza parlor in New York City, you are going to get gluten-ated just from flour dust in the air, by breathing it in. We can't walk around in bubble suits. (I know I am going to get yelled at for that one!) LOL!!! But, in my personal opinion, it's all about quality of life/versus risk from gluten.

Isn't it the same in other areas in our life? Look at driving in an automobile. There is definitely a risk of injury/death by riding in a car. But we choose to take that risk, because it is a quality of life versus risk issue. Quality wins, hands down! Even though it may kill us one day!

In my personal opinion, taking communion on a gluten-free diet, is along those lines. Do you or I believe that it will increase the quality of our lives/souls/faith (whatever...) enought to outweigh the damage /risks that it causes. This is something that we must all ask our self individually, and pray about. Including myself!!

I absolutely do NOT want to get too theological, but it's hard to steer away from theology, given the topic. Wether you believe that communion is just a remembrance meal, the actual body and blood of Christ, or absolutely meaningless. There is one thing that all christians can agree on. Jesus Christ said "DO THIS" in remembrance of me. I can't remember a single time in the Bible when Jesus/God said DO THIS and the person would have been better off if they didn't DO THAT! EVEN IF it seemed CRAZY at the time! Just look back at Davis and Goliath, Daniel and the lion's den, the passover blood, Isaac/Abraham, and many more!

I think that in the case of communion, in my decision, the benefits outweigh the risk. Based solely on the fact that Jesus said DO THIS. So I will DO THIS. I just pray that I will have the strength and protection of God like David did, when facing Goliath with a slingshot!

To some, I am sure that I probably sound delusional. But isn't faith the belief in things not seen? I hope my faith holds strong!

Brizzo

Hi I am only a teen but have had major personal issues with the catholic church about this. Please post and tell me if you belong to the catholic church and I will let you know!

There have been several threads on this topic in the past. You are new here, so you don't remember the pain this topic has caused in the past. Please search this board for "communion" and you will find what you need without rekindling the debate here.

Brizzo,

They didn't have premade nasty tasting wafers 2000 years ago did they. It's your body, but I think it's crazy to gluten yourself ever week when there is a safe alternative. So have at it, let us know when you start to have a reaction, because you will!!!!

Then there is your answer. I don't believe there's any right or wrong in a situation like this--we all have to find the way that makes sense in our lives.

Its all about faith. My struggle is God has revealed to my daughter that she is healed but God doesn't live in time like we do. Is she healed now...her body says no. Will she be healed in heaven...yes. Does she believe she is healed...yes, but it hasn't happened...yet. Then...how will she know she is healed since she can't know what is going on inside. Does she keep eating gluten...no. Does the healing take place miraculously and how will she know? Or does it take place in time? If she keeps eating gluten it can do unseen damage even if she feels good. This I know, we walk by faith and not by sight. God knows what he is doing. God is our healer. God will tell her when she can eat gluten again when he is ready to do so. Meanwhile her faith is growing and so is her relationship with the Lord. God knows all things and can do all things! This is the thorn in her flesh that helps her keep her eyes on him and he will not take it away too soon. Good news... when she gets to heaven she will understand why all this has happened to her but then gluten won't matter anymore. She will be able to eat for pleasure and not to stay alive. For now its her job to believe what God told her and to keep believing, God honors faith(yours too, Brizzo!). Example of my above thoughts and questions: God had David annointed as king but it was a long time before he became king. 1st Samuel 16 to 2nd Samuel 2:11

Random thoughts............

As a result of the fuse that this issue is causing (one that I did not intend to light!) , I sincerely apologize. To anybody who thinks that I am crazy, I am sorry. Some people think that riding a motorcycle is crazy, and I do that too.

And just FYI, I am not against taking a "rice " wafer, etc . I don't believe that unleavened bread is the only way... I just believe that even when 100% gluten-free, you still get some inadvertent gluten ingestion, and I ...

A. Am in denial about the damage that "just a lil bit of gluten", can do OR

B. I just don't care enough (as long as I don't have a rash on my face). OR

C. Don't want to be "the guy who can't take normal communion at the church" or the witch of salem. (Let's face it... the church is full of people, people are all sinners, and they can be downright mean sometimes!)

or maybe a combination of all three???? I am not 100% sure on that yet.

I know most people on here are 100% no gluten. And then there is the ABSOLUTELY NO GLUTEN, MUST WASH HANDS THREE TIMES, WEAR AN AIR MASK, SHAKEN NOT STIRRED, DO THE HOKEY POKEY, types. And that's fine too.

I understand that your thought process tells you to "avoid at all costs." That's cool with me! My thought process is
to minimize damage when applicable and practical. And I hope that is cool with you! =) And to me, being "that one guy" in church is NOT cool with me. Is that shallowness/weakness/insecurity on my part, maybe so. But at least I know it and ACCEPT IT. NEWS FLASH......."I am weak and have faults!" The first person to point that out wins $100.00! LOL =) But I do not feel sorry for myself, want sympathy etc..... at the end of the day it's me that has to live with it , right?

I smoke cigarettes, so obviously "fear of disease" is not a big motivator for me. They are ultra lights though! Like I said earlier, damage control when applicable/practical! LOL!!!

I guess I realize that I can't live forever, and even if I am going to die at 100 years old, tell me that when I am 99, and I will feel cheated! My eye is on the prize of eternity and afterlife, I hope to just get there, wether it be today or 100 years from now.

And for anyone that thinks that I am this- pizza eating/beer drinking/flour sifting maniac, that is not the case. I knowingly and purposefully ingest wheat at communion and communion only.

Any-who.... man is it hot in here.... this is a bit more "intense" than I normally write. But I think that it is great that we can all express ourselves civilly on here! That speaks allot about this great community.

I hope I didn't piss anyone off too bad....... Sorry Guys...... I still love you guys! Brizzo

purple that was beautiful and EXACTLY what I needed to hear, thank you so much for sharing!

You're welcome! Our faith is to be shared same as our problems. As the body of Christ we are to lift each other up. Just like every person/health is different, so is what we believe. How much our faith grows is depended alot on our trials. This gluten one is a big one b/c we can't see inside. God wants our faith to get to the point of sacrifice as Abraham did with Isaac in Genesis 22. You seem to be there by what you said, however we must never test God, it has to be by faith. Only each person knows where they are at and others can't understand, just like celiacs and non-celiacs. God gives us a measure of faith then grows it. God is good!!! (p.s. I like to ride dirt bikes and 4-wheelers, but I don't say the p___ word even though its in the bible- KJV)

As you are a brand new member of this church, I strongly suggest you talk to the pastor about this issue. If your congregation is any size at all, they are probably already accommodating someone else, and are doing it discretely enough that you didn't notice.

And yes we all will die of something (unless the Lord comes back first) but I would much rather live out my days as healthy as I possibly can rather than suffer from disease and disability and pain etc. for my last years. I vastly increase my chances of doing that if I, as someone once said, treat my body like a temple instead of an amusement park. Or a garbage can.

JMHO

my church has 300 members, and yes my pastor knows about my "wheat allergy" , but I told him that I didn't want to be segregated apart from the rest of the church during communion.

As far as not getting disease when I get older, etc... just a couple of FYI's

1. I am a paramedic, I know what smoking does to a person..... yet I smoke. So, I guess my "give a pooper" might be broke....... as far as doing what's best for my body.

2. I have seen so many people live right, eat right, etc. Yet I have met plenty that have been stricken with cancer, stroke, etc.... at 40 years old. (once again, the paramedic occupation gives me a front row seat to this.) I know plenty of good ol' rednecks that have smoked their whole life and are still farming at 80 years old. I gave up searching for the fountain of youth long ago. And if heaven is as good as the Bible claims, why would I want to stay here forever. In retrospect, a true christian should be praying to hurry up and get done with this life, and get to eternity!

Finally , some of the GOOD BOOK........

I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day” (John 6:53-54)

If a man keeps my word, he will never see death” (John 8:51).

The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me (John 12:25-26).

Do not love the world, nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. And the world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God abides forever. -I John 2:15-17

You're a grown-up so you don't need anyone's permission to do it. I do hope others won't be encouraged to do it just because you report no ill effects. The truth of the matter, which I can see you understand, is damage could be taking place without any outward signs. If you accept that risk, I support you in your choice. I am Catholic so I do absolutely know how it feels to be "different" when it comes time for Communion. But my own personal cross is light in comparision.

Frankly, I'm WAY MORE CONCERNED that you smoke!

God bless and prayers for you!

I waited to comment on this one...I took communion last week and I felt the pain in my stomach shortly after. The pain that usually sends me to the ER and morphine won't diminish. So this week I will be crossing my arms. I don't want to interrupt the service by calling an ambulance!!!

I'm Catholic and have brought the subject up with my local Bishop and parish priest when I found out I had Celiac. I looked into the "low gluten" hosts. It is approved by the Catholic Church (and they don't like making exceptions about wheat). My doctor finally gave it the go ahead after calling the nuns who make it himself. He said that even if I ingested 100 of those a day it wouldn't hurt me. He agrees with you that gluten gets into the system even by walking by a bakery.

So, I have a separate pix. People have come up to me asking me why I have a separate pix. At first I was embarrassed/annoyed of drawing attention toward myself and not the Eucharist. Then, Fr Mike came up to me and said that because of me there are people asking for the low gluten host. All the Celiacs in my area go to our parish because the Eucharistic Ministers have been trained to make sure the cup I take from is not contaminated with other people's gluten. I'm the first to take from the cup on my side of the church. 3 out of 4 cups do not contain gluten. Several people "line up" behind me now to receive the low gluten host before anyone else.

I was taking the regular host until I told them where to get the low gluten one. I was taking it before my doctor gave me the go ahead. Several people I know said their doctors said no way, but mine actually called the convent and asked for information to be sent to his office.

I will say I respect people who decline the low gluten host. I had a friend of mine tell me I was killing myself and she refused to commit suicide with me. I respect her opinion and know how my body is doing with this.

I'm extremely sensitive to gluten, but have had no problems at all. My doctor gives me the endoscope twice a year and I've had all the villa healed when they started off as close to non existent. My blood work never showed the antigens. This has been going on now for years and still no villa problems. Just my 2 cents.

I agree though Brizzo, I have to have the body and blood to feel God's hand on/in me.

Peace and all good,
Jaime

Dear Brizzo:

Like Paul, let me give you my "credentials" I am a Christian woman who had been our church librarian for several years.... I read a great deal - all topics.

I recall a conversation I had with a minister friend of ours regarding God and the Laws of Nature. The minister commented that the Law of God and Nature remain constant. God's laws are immutable, as are the Laws of Nature (Nature which he created).
For example, so far only space agencies such as NASA has been able to violate the Law of Gravity, however gravity still exists for us on a daily basis and we are compelled to obey it as it was instituted by God for our benefit and protection.
God normally will not suspend the Law of Gravity unless he's creating miracles -- for the rest of the time, we should not be deliberately walking off buildings and expecting Him to save us. This being said, there are other laws of nature which must be adhered to.
If poison is drunk, the expectation is that the person will die. Again, we may ask for help through prayer, but under normal circumstances it is a given that poison will kill a person.
The Bible also tells us "not to test the Lord your God."
You cannot deliberately and willfully engage in a dangerous activity and take it for granted that God will keep you from harm - that's unnecessarily testing God.
Additionally, being a Believer does not mean that you "check your common sense at the door of the church."

Now to tie this into consuming gluten at Communion: you have free will to consume gluten or not. But don't take it for granted that gluten in the Communion host does not exist. The chemical element of gluten (Law of Nature) will be registered by your immune system and will act as gluten in your system. You may not have immediate results but your immune system will let you know sooner or later.

I hope this makes sense....

D.

I'm really glad to read this thread!
I blood-tested negative for celiac, most of my family is positive, but I have a true wheat allergy..as in my throat and bronchial tubes start swelling shut if I even get a bite of cross-contamination!

Before my allergy became so life-threatening, I struggled with this so much but now, it's more of a life and death issue. I haven't been to church in a while and I am not sure how to handle this. I want to go tomorrow and I *think* it's communion Sunday. If so, I'm going to have to just pass on the wafer and take the wine. There's a new pastor since I've been there last and I don't know this one at all. It's a very, very small church and I'm sure there will be those noticing and making their comments but you know..it's really none of their business! God knows why I would decline and I know He loves me whether I eat a cracker or not!

hmm....guess I know how I'm going to handle this after all, huh?! lol...

Demidge,


...I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day” (John 6:53-54)

I appreciate your analogy, but God did not tell us to , "walk off a cliff and test gravity." God said that by eating this bread , I will have eternal life. God says this, not me.

God also told Peter to walk on water. Even though this was "against the laws of nature" (as you put it in your comment above). Peter stayed atop of the water. Only when he began to loose faith and let fear take over, did the "laws of nature" began to take over.

I understand the law of nature with my immune system. I choose to put aside fear, and let faith guide me. I am not "..testing the Lord God." I am doing what he commanded by eating the bread. I am not drinking poisons or walking off a cliff, as you said. I am just stepping out of the boat, after God commanded me to do.

Brizzo

You stated it well. As I said previously, its a faith issue. Each persons faith is at a different level. God is bigger than gluten. After all it was God who created gluten and the human body and gravity and the immune system and communion and....and....and.... He knows how it all works. He knows who will believe without doubting. Everyone must know that its not the wafer that gives eternal life. The wafer is symbolic of Jesus and what he did at the cross for us. Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
The wafer is for reminding us of what Jesus did for those who believe(or want to believe). His broken body(wafer) and poured out blood(wine or grape juice).
Luke 22:19 And he took bread and gave thanks and brake it and gave unto them saying, This is my body which is given for you, this do in remembrance of me. (He exemplified this before he died and rose)
The wafer is only flour and water. We are to hunger and thirst for Christ as shown in communion. We are to be filled with his spirit. We are to get our nourishment from him. Man cannot live by bread alone but by every word from the mouth of God. Jesus is the word made flesh. We are to partake in communion, but it in itself does not give eternal life only Jesus can.

I am a Byzantine Catholic. I spoke to my priest about the wheat/celiac issue and he pointed out that in the Catholic faith, we believe that Christ is present in both species (bread and wine). Therefore, if one wants to avoid the gluten in the bread, one may licitly receive Communion by wine (the Blood) alone.

This is different that in non-Catholic churches, where the Communion is believed to be a symbol of Christ, rather than Christ Himself, of course. I just wanted any Catholics here to rest assured that if they are receiving the wine, they are fully partaking of Communion. My priest will accomodate me by allowing me to receive only the wine from the cup.

purple, I respect your opinion, but differ in mine. Yes, I believe that we are saved by grace through faith alone, in christ alone. But even though the Bible seems to put ALOT of weight on Baptism and confession/repentance also. This is how God "works" our salvation. Not by our "works" . But following the commandment of Christ.

"... baptism now SAVES you not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience..." 1 Peter 3:21
..but this can be a whole new discussion for another topic

I also believe that God has given us certain gifts in this life that help work our faith and help us grow spiritually. (marriage, baptism, communion, etc...) This is not saving ourselves by"works", but following the commandment of our Lord out of love, and desire to please him as a result of that love, and not to save ourselves. But I believe God works his grace and grows our faith through these things. I am Lutheran, and I believe that Christ's body and blood are in the bread and wine. You seem to be of differing belief. So we may just have to agree to disagree on this one. When it comes to communion, here is an example of why I don't agree with "remembrance" theology

I Corinthians 10:16

The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ?(AA) The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?<-------well, is it? We can't change the word of God to please our needs.

Matthew 26:26-29; Mark 14:22-25; Luke 22:14-23

Take, eat; THIS IS my body.<------ No mistake here, ...THIS IS his body....pretty clear there.

The apostle Paul believes this body and blood to be so "real" that he states in I Corinthians 11:27

Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord(AC) in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. <---Wonder bread and Welches grape juice bring judgement on us........no, but the TRUE BODY AND BLOOD of Christ.....absolutely

Do I think communion saves us, ...simply, no

Do I think it is more than just a wonder bread and grape juice toast to our good buddy Jesus?.... ABSOLUTELY !

Questions for you or anyone...how can the bread and wine be Jesus' actual body and blood when he wasn't dead yet? Sounds symbolic with spiritual significance to me.

Strong's concordance, Greek for communion #2842=koinonia= partnership, participation, social intercourse, benefaction, to communicate, communion, distribution, fellowship (where does it say actual body and blood of our risen Lord?).
1 Corinthians 12 Talks about the "body" of Christ. v.27 says: Now ye are the body of Christ and members in particular. Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church. (Are we the body of Christ or are we the church? or both?) spiritual implication again.
Luke 22:19 ...this do in remembrance of me. Why did Jesus say that? We are to remember what he did for us at the cross...broken body and poured out blood, for our sins. If we don't take what Jesus did seriously we will be held accountable. Communion is to be serious or it becomes a meaningless, traditional ritual. Unworthy manner.

If Christ's actual body and blood are in the bread and wine then he is being sacrificed over and over.
Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Is the veil his actual flesh? Hebrews 10:20 By a new and living way which he hath consecrated for us through the veil, that is to say, his flesh...

The passover supper was to be practiced and remembered dating back to Exodus 12. Shown there, as a lamb (and God as a lamb in Genesis 22:8)
Symbolic of later when Jesus is our passover Lamb.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (does that actually say that Jesus is a lamb?)(does that mean you are eating lamb in that wafer? I am not attacking, I am trying to show the spiritual implication)

This is my prayer and I pray it would be everyone elses too:
Luke 24:45
Then opened he (Jesus) their understanding that they might understand the scriptures.

Purple, I have asked myself these questions before... I once believed as you did, I am not a cradle lutheran. I also would like you to know that I agree with you about not trying to convert each others beliefs or attack. I think that it is great that we can have discussions civilly about the Bible. I actually enjoy it! =)

Here is what took me many years to learn. As I am not easilly "sold" into theology.

"how can the bread and wine be Jesus' actual body and blood when he wasn't dead yet?"

The same way he said "let there be light", and "I am in the father and the father is in me", his word is inerrant. he says it----it is , period

John tells us this.... Chapter 1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men.

You referenced the word communion's definition..... Do a search on biblegateway.com for the word communion in the Bible. You won't find it. This is a human descriptor for a spiritual and Biblical thing. It's man-made definition, 2,000 years later, is meaningless to Christ's words.

You give many scriptural examples of "spiritual implication" in the Bible. While I agree that many of your examples are correct. The references to the last supper in the gospels, are not meant to be interpreted this way in the original Greek text. I have studied this Greek. And not to get too collegiate, here it is in a nut-shell. Matthew (Mt 26:26), Mark (14:22) and Luke (22:19) use exactly the same Greek words for “This is my body”.

Touto estin to soma mou
This is the body of me

When the text is examined in relationship to Greek grammar employed in the passage, the meaning becomes very clear. Touto (this) is a neuteral demonstrative adjective (in Greek, words are male, female, or neutral...similar to Spanish) . It can’t modify or refer to bread, which is a masculine noun. Instead, it clearly refers to soma (body), which is a nominative neuteral noun. Therefore the only possible translation in English is: “This [substance in my hands] is my body.”

The verses you gave in reference to "spiritual implication" do not share this same masculine/feminine vs. neuter demonstrative sentence structure. Actually, I believe that this is one of the few times (possibly the only time) that Christ is recorded in this way. He is VERY SPECIFIC HERE! It is indeed meant quite literally. This IS my body.

Paul uses a somewhat different Greek construction in his First Letter to the Corinthians (1 Cor 11:24).
Touto mou estin to soma
This of me is the body
Once again, however, the meaning is very clear. Paul’s positioning of mou (of me) strengthens the meaning of touto (this). The text is so clear that Jesus is speaking about his body that it is so reflected in most English translations. What was only bread is only bread no longer. It is "my body."

Once again. I think scripture already answers this for us in 1 Corinthians 10:16
...Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? Well?

As far as "Do this in remembrance of me." You partake in his body and blood while remembering him, not thinking about last night's ball game. Simply put. Jesus did not say...."forget about all that body and blood stuff I just said, five minutes ago...I must have been hallucinating... just eat juice and crackers... and oh yea, think about me when you do it, that would be nice....I'd like that.."

you stated..."If Christ's actual body and blood are in the bread and wine then he is being sacrificed over and over." -you said this....not me...

This is very Catholic theology. (No offense to Catholics). But I don't buy it. Every time we sin and repent, we are guilty for his crucifixion, and are baptized in his blood. Again and again. His blood is forever there. We are not re-sacrificing Christ again and again. I believe you might be referencing the Catholic term of "Sacrifice of the alter" , when referring to communion. Once again, I am not Catholic. If I believed this or saw it in the Bible, I'd convert. But as far as I know, it's not in there. I would answer answer your question about re-sacrifice a little more, but I am not sure where your point of reference for this came from. I don't buy this theology, it's not Biblical, and I never said it, nor do I believe it.

I share with you in your prayer of
Luke 24:45
Then opened he (Jesus) their understanding that they might understand the scriptures.

Learning this is not easy and can be downright painfull. It's like trying to learn how big space is. It makes my brain explode, and I'd rather not think about it. I think many people in this world do this with theology, and it is sad. I am glad to see people like yourself, me, and many others on here, still have the desire to learn the truth. I believe that you and I have made progress in that department. Even if we differ in theology!

Many blessings, Brizzo!

Dear Brizzo: I understand the bible verses which you provided in your response to me....probably more than you realize. I know your intention is to follow The Word. I just wanted to provide a sound reason as to why you should avoid gluten, even in its smallest amounts. I do not question your faith but I am concerned about
ingesting a substance which is a proven "poison" to a celiac - so it's not a question of fear, but a question of law of physics/chemistry. Please consider that God would not want a celiac to take chances with the "Temple". I just want you to prayerfully think about it before you impair your health. Forgive my stumbling words as I am just concerned.

D.

Debmidge. I understand that you are concerned that "the laws of nature" will make me ill. If we were talking about "sneaking a little pizza and beer" now and then, I would absolutely agree with you. You also stated that you understand my faith. I am not totally sure that you do. If God asks us to do something. We should do it with faith that he will protect us. For this is what faith is. Just like my earlier example about Peter stepping out of the boat. Look at David vs Goliath, Daniel in the Lions den, and 100s more. The laws of nature were not a factor. When it comes to natural law vs Gods law. Gods law wins. I don't expect this to make sense to people "in the flesh". (I am not necessarily saying you debmidge, as I do not know your faith, nor is it my buisness. I am just making a general statement. ) hope this explains my position better.

James tells us the same thing here in Chapter 2. Faith and Deeds

14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,"[e] and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Which Bible version do you study from?

KJV 1 Corinthians 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? Communion IS written in the scriptures.
http://www.av1611/kjv/counterfeit.html
http://www.hissheep.org/kjv/a_comparison_of_the_kjv_niv.html
http://bloomsburgbaptistchurch.net/NIV.html
Http://www.pawcreek.org/articles/endtimes/...esuitPriest.htm
http://www.learnthebible.org/disappearing%20Bible.htm
There are tons of sites to research bible versions and why/how they are changed.

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life and out of the holy city and from the things which are written in this book.

In the NIV, in Luke 11, the translators have removed 1/2 of the Lord's prayer.
In the NKJV, over 20,000 words are taken away and over 100,000 are changed.

http://www.fillthevoid.org/Versions/differences-1.html
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/nkjvdead.html

God's word is being taken away from us, one word at a time.

purple, I always reference back to the original language, Greek and Hebrew. This is where we can find the original word of God. I agree with you and your reference that the Bible can be lost in translation. This is why I referenced the original Greek for you. I agree with you on the idea that things can be lost in translation. I believe this is what has happened in the lords supper.

As far as the word "communion". There is no Greek word in the original text for this. This is what the English language has "learned" to call it. Go to biblegateway.com ; here u can search every version of the Bible known to man in all languages in one search. Type the word communion and search ALL versions of the Bible for this word. It's simply not there. I assure u that I am not changing the word of God. Purple, that was a cheap shot. I always good evidence from the Bible. I though we were having a civilized, mature conversation here. I would never accuse u of being a heretic for having a different opinion.

Purple ,,,,,I STAND CORRECTED!!!!!!!! The term communion IS in the bible, I did not select all versions on my search! But I did find some very interesting things. Out of the 19 versions of the bible that I found...4 use the term communion, 15 use blessing or thanks, in the scripture you referenced.
Here they are
I Corinthians 10:16

message version-the cup of blessing
KJV-communion
NIV-thanksgiving
NASB-cup of blessing
Amplified-blessing
Mew Living-Bless/body/blood
ESV-body/blood
contemporary english version-blessing
New KJV-blessing
New century version-blessing
American Standard-communion
young's literal translation-blessing
darby- blessing/communion-both
holman christian standard-blessing
new international-body/blood/thanks
wycliff version-communion/blessing
worldwide english-blessing
NIV-UK-thanksgiving
Today's NIV-thanksgiving

The greek puts it like this
I cointhians 10:16

to pothrion thV eulogiaV o eulogoumen, ouci koinwnia estin tou aimatoV tou cristou; ton arton on klwmen, ouci koinwnia tou swmatoV tou cristou estin;

The word here is koinwnia or koinonia, pronounced (koy-nohn-ee'-ah). 1 Corinthians 10:16 (KJV) use the English word “communion” to represent the Greek word of koinonia. But most all other Biblical translations use the term "blessing" and do not include the term, communion. KJV reads... "The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?" Any common meal certainly could represent a “sharing.” The Greek term koinonia is viewed as much deeper, however, when the meal is associated with a spiritual purpose. Joining in the Lord’s Supper is uniting oneself with other believers in the body and blood of Christ. To "become one" through His body and Blood in the bread and wine.

The word, koinonia, has such a multitude of meanings that no single English word is adequate to express its depth and richness. It is a derivative of "koinos," the word for common . Koinonia is a complex, rich, and thoroughly fascinating Greek approach to building community or teamwork.

The great Theologian , Thomas Aquinas, was quoted as saying,"the Eucharist is the sacrament of the unity of the Church, which results from the fact that many are one in Christ." This was in the 13th century. WAAAAYYYY before Lutheran, Baptist, Pentecostal, King James Version, New Standard Version, The message.....ect.

A matter of fact, this was considered the actual body and blood of Christ by ALL Christians from about 2-300 AD (the early church) untill about the mid 1500's. This was around the first time that it is ever recorded in history as a debate of being only a remberance meal. This was first debated by Luther and Zwingli.

So if what you say is correct, then that means that for 1500 years, ALL CHRISTIANS WERE WRONG! IF this is what you are indeed saying, that is BOLD!!!!!!

People have been taking bread and wine as body and blood for about 2000 yrs back untill Christ's time. The remembrance meal is only 500 years deep in history. Ask yourself, who changed the Biblical meaning of Koin-a-nia!

I do apologize about the no communion comment. I stand corrected. But I don't think that discredits my above argument.

This thread is about a person with Celiac Disease receiving or not receiving Communion and what options are available.

Theological discussion are discouraged and Bible Study should not be held on the general forum.

I started this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And you are telling me what I can and can't say. What kind of forum is this??????????

As I stated earlier, theological discussions here are discouraged.

I am having a mature conversation with adults that I happen to respect. There is no "ugliness" here.

What else is off limits here?....... Abortion, politics, talking bad about communist China!

How childish!

Where is this healthy or right.......

Are you a moderator on this forum?.....

Are you a moderator on this forum?.....
[/quote]


Yes sir, I am.

These boards are run for specific purposes, by an individual, at his expense. I think that he has the right to make rules and appoint moderators (I am one as well) to monitor them.

This section is titled Dermatitis Herpetiformis and has as its purpose, "Discussions concerning the skin condition associated with celiac disease." This is clearly visible on the home page, as is the subject matter of each of the sections. This site is run to focus on specific areas of interest, and is not a general purpose discussion forum.

The discussion in this thread is no longer about coping with Dermatitis Herpetiformis, and is therefore no longer consistent with the purpose of this forum.

I'm done ... you win!


I can point you to hundreds of posts where they have "gotten off topic" from gluten. This happens to just one of them. I can't count the amount of times the last post in a 3 page thread has had NOTHING to do with the main topic, or even venture off course a bit. Nothing in this thread is any different. It just happens to be about God. I found it to be a very intriguing thread, and in no way a nuisance on here.

After two years as an advanced community member on this board, I will be canceling my account. I can no longer be a part of a group that only enforces moderation of religion.I will be posting my goodbye to all in one last thread, then I will delete my account in several days, after all have had a chance to read it.

Problem solved...

Brizzo

I am sorry you feel that way, but this board has rules for a reason.

brizzo,

I am sorry that you feel that way.

As I mentioned in a Personal Message to you, this membership is made up from people all around the world with various religious beliefs. Therefore, the policy of this site is to refrain from topics such as politics, religion and sex for the obvious reasons. As history will tell, those subjects never end well here (as evident in your most recents posts).

If you still feel compelled to close your membership, you must contact the Administration directly.

Perhaps you could carry on the conversation in the section about anything except Celiac. While this thread has indeed deviated far from DH, it seems that over in that section you are free to discuss (politely and courteously and within obvious social limits) whatever you want.

My understanding is that is it ok to mention God on this forum and there is no restriction of such. The problem arises when you start quoting scripture. That is something that can be done in PM's. There are many faiths represented on this board and I've been on other threads within the last two years that haven't gone into studies, that got heated.

We all need to respect that others may believe differently than we do. Even threads for prayer are answered by those who don't necessarily believe in God but will keep the people in their thoughts.

There are also many threads on communion, although I don't remember what section they are in.


Putting on my moderator cap as well. Bible study is not a "safe" topic on an open forum like this. There are other forums out there for that, and I'm sure many of them. There is need of keeping constroversial topics off of a public forum where anyone can read and sign up and join in a fight. If you look at the disallowed topics under the gab/chat section that will give a good idea of "hot", controversial topics.

Dear Andrea

I am writing to your "moderator cap": please then show that Bible study/versing/quoting and threads about celiac and communion are against the official rules.
I feel it's unfair to allow the topic (i.e., no written prohibition on it) and then reprimand (OUCH!) the posters after they post "biblical". I've seen so many of these communion threads (I am not offended by it, by the way) but there are many members on this board who are not mature enough to shrug off an opposing opinion. So I respectfully request that the Board rules are changed to include that bible study/quoting verses or discussing bible stuff and communion are against the rules - because that's how this forum really feels about it. This would prevent someone's feelings (the someone being the original poster (like Brizzo) or an immature poster later on - usually it's the usual suspects who find biblical discussions offensive) getting hurt unnecessarily and amending the rules states the Board's position. I am tired of seeing this happen - either allow it and hold your peace or fully prohibit it. It can't be both ways because it makes it look like the Moderators are speaking out of both sides of their mouths.

Additionally, I find the bible postings interesting because it broadens my knowledge base, I try to glean new information/opinions from wherever I can - but then that's just me...also personally I do think that the topics of celiac and communion is relevant and does belong on this forum, but that's for Scott to decide.

Deb

Dear Brizzo

Please reconsider and don't leave the forum. Unfortunately, the censorship is an unspoken, unposted rule. Please reconsider because this forum does provide an abundance of information despite this "problem." We need intelligent, strong thinkers like yourself ....send me PM then and let's talk about it.



D.

Deb,

There is not an official rule, it's just that so many topics where bible/religion have gotten hot. I'm personally not against such as I'm a Christian as well. I've taken an attitude of allowing others their belief, even if different than mine. Others aren't that allowing. I know that the communion threads (at least some of them) have gotten heated as well.


For the record Brizzo. What you do about communion is a personal choice. I am one who doesn't partake of the bread. For celiacs that is damaging and even a little can cause more problems down the road.

Hello Everyone,

The topic here is whether someone ought to take communion if they have celiac disease or gluten sensitivity. The medical answer is no, although anyone can make their own choice and still decide to do this. The Catholic Church has, since 1994, allowed members to use low-gluten hosts for communion. These would be made with wheat starch that is under 200ppm, and would be a much safer choice than a pure wheat host. This would be a safe way to take communion, and the actual letter that addresses this issue can be found here:
http://www.celiac.com/articles/285/1/Celia...nion/Page1.html

Since 1994 most other churches have adopted this idea, and also allow communion hosts made from low gluten wheat starch or other ingredients, so for most people this has become a non-issue. Such hosts can be purchased on-line, for example this one:
http://www.ener-g.com/store/detail.aspx?se...at=15&id=21
although I do believe that the Catholic Church does require that theirs be made from wheat starch.

In any case, anyone is free to go against medical advice and eat a gluten host, or, they could contact their pastor/priest, etc., and discuss this matter and could likely work out a gluten-free or low gluten alternative. Another option for some would be to just do the "blood" or wine only. In any case, since this choice is so personal it likely won't be resolved here.

This topic has been discussed many times on this board, and unfortunately in many cases it has led heated debates and arguments that have led some people to get upset and leave the board. Please try to keep things in perspective and realize that everyone here should be focused on helping each other deal with celiac disease and the gluten-free diet--which is the focus of this board.

Take care,
Scott

I am new here and hope I am replying correctly. I ,as faithful to my Catholic religion. but respecting other denominations wish to share that we , as another shaired, do accept the taking of the wine as a complete communion. I personally have tried talking the smalled amount of just the host with problems resulting ,and so now only partake of the wine or commune in my heart only, if wine is not served. I hope this helps.
Peace and Serenity,
Tom Smithbrother